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The subject came up on the last episode of The Instance during Rumors And Scuttlebutt: Could Blizzard give the disenchant skill to another profession? What else could be changed in the game to make it so that a party of five (that included no enchanter) could come away from a boss fights with shards and dust, instead of vendor trash?
Want to win a code for a Grunty The Murloc Marine in-game pet from Blizzard and The Instance? Give us your best answer to the disenchant question in this thread on The Instance Forums before 4PM PDT today. One poster who participates will be randomly drawn the winner!
When a player loots the item, a sort of timer comes up, and you have to click the most obvious bright red button on a little need or greed type window, and whoever clicks it first can DE it.
Simple… Make disenchanting an option for everyone for thier loot instead of a profession skill, not during loot phase but after.
Anyone can disenchant, say at Dalaran’s disenchanting shop, and get shards for their item or vendor if they want the money.
And this don’t cause any problems to the enchanting profession as you still need enchanters to use the mats on your item.
PS: Grunty… you’re mine now
First you do the classic Need/Greed.
Then if you won the item a pop-up appears asking if you’d like the item or would like it Disenchanted : Yes/No
This way you can get mats without having a Disenchanter in the group and this would make a lot of enchanting mats availible and would lower the cost of mats, thus benefiting everyone as Enchanters would still get tips for their Enchants or their Vallum
One Grunty: Need / Greed
NEED!
I agree with Moonisha, except only give the winner the option of deing the item if their is an enchahter in the group of sufficient skill.
I agree with samahel – only maybe a little twist.
Make disenchanting a skill every one gets. JUST disenchanting. That way, just as sam said, you still need an enchanter to do all the enchanting, but you don’t have to worry about having a disenchanter in your group. Every one can do it, and Raid Leaders can just add a roll to their loot rules.
Main spec roll for [Insert Item Here]
*no rolls*
Off spec roll for [Insert Item Here]
*no rolls*
Disenchant roll for [Insert Item Here]
*yellow wall of 1-100*
I haven’t touched my Enchanter in forever, maybe this is already an option. However, what if you can disenchant someone’s items from the trade window, just like how you enchant BoP items, and pick locks. This way, only enchanters can disenchant, but anyone can have their stuff disenchanted, Bound or Not.
I don’t agree that everyone should be able to get the result of a disenchant from the loot..
What’s next, when someone else mines a node in an instance, everyone gets to roll for the minerals automatically?
Simple, Enchanters should be able to disenchant bound items for other people. Put it in the “not traded” slot just like when enchanting an item, but the other person gets the mats from the disenchantment. This way the Enchanter can be tipped for doing the DE.
I think it is a good idea for those of us who can’t DE. I think it will help players to get the items they need for the enchantments they want without having to go to the AH and buy the items for inflated prices. It still gives Enchanters something to do it just makes it easier for us non Enchanters to get what we need.
I like Samahel’s idea. Or maybe they could incorporate a disenchanting service into Jeeves if there was no disenchanter in the party?
Have enchanters be able to make a transmutation box – call it, say the Horadric Pube – that allows everyone to disenchant things. It’ll make the enchanters happy, because there are more enchanting mats for sale, and it’ll make the non-enchanters happy, because they can actually do something with that useless drop.
I like Gilzen’s idea. Enchanters get very little love. I also thought that DE could be added to the list of things Jeeves can do, and even the repair bot. Spread the love out to the engineers. ;D
Personally, I would like to see a high level engineering item “The Disenchantment Box.” If the box required “re-fueling” from an enchanter, this could also assist with tips for enchanters. This way it is available to all players, but could be limited to players over a certain level.
Think rogue lock picking vs skeleton keys.
my opinion is that you just keep the need greed and pass mechanic and get rid of disenchanting as a player profession and have a vendor who can disenchant in all major cities.
Maybe it can be that the vendor can disenchant the items for free but then you have to pay a fee to receive the shards. If you decide not to buy the shards then the other members of the party had the option to buy them. If other party members did not want it then it would be available to open market.
You could also implement a guild bank mechanic so that you drop it in disenchant on guild bank and it puts shards up for the whole guild.
Cooking. Let people be able to cook up a concoction to disenchant an item. Also, allow for a “Disenchant” option in addition to the need/greed/pass options given now. Then they could DE it on the spot. But then you’d be faced with rolling for the shard. But that’s a whole other issue in and of itself.
I like Figworth’s idea having a box that anyone could buy off of a enchanter that they could then use to disenchant items would be great because on the one hand enchanters can make money off the boxes and on the other everyone can disenchant. It would add some profitability to the profession that is perhaps the hardest to skill up.
BTW, it’s because I thought Randy’s idea was genius. Pure genius.
I agree that if the decision is made that everyone should be able to disenchant, then it should be a Secondary Skill that anyone has access to and can level up like they would fishing, cooking or first aid. I don’t think you can just make it an “everyone can disenchant anything, anywhere, anytime” kinda skill.
Failing that, I’ll second samahel’s idea — make it an option for certain vendors, much like you can pay for repairs from certain vendors.
All said, I think Enchanters should retain the ability to disenchant — maybe even with a higher max level, so only true enchanters can disenchant the most powerful/high level items — so they can charge a small fee for the service just like Rogue’s do when picking locks.
As a enchanter and knowing the time it takes to get high enought to DE stuff from high level dungeon, I would suggest that if you have enchanting on one of your character, all your other toons get the same DE level.
Say I have enchanting at lvl 450 on my main, all my toon would get the same DE ability of my main. This would make enchanting a lot more available.
Give everyone the ability to DE, but give the Enchanters a chance to proc an extra shard or two. As it is now on the PTRs, Enchanters are basically forced to use their skills. They should get something in return.
I think that the conjecture that the item will be auto-DE’d is wrong. The way I see it happening is is Need>Greed>vendor/de>pass. When given the options, what our friends at Bliz are doing is automating the vendor/de roll that follows the drop that no-one wants. One problem with auto-de’ing something is that, well, lacking an enchanter a shard is just another shiny bauble that might be actionable.
Wish fulfillment time…. “Fractured by the awesome powers assaulting ****, the blade secreted in his treasure hoard is overwhelmed and cracks, falling to pieces before the adventurers. Amongst the scraps of metal and leather of this once magnificent weapon rests a pair of jewels and the crystalized remnants of the power that once coursed through it.” In other words, de roll equals a couple of gems and a shard.
You guys! Put your ideas in the forum thread! Not here! Again… why am I lowering my chances of winning?
I think just giving everyone a secondary skill of disenchanting would be the best solution. Blizzard would probably have to give enchanting a buff afterword. Maybe give enchanters the ability to get proc’s when they disenchant like an alchemist gets with specializations.
I personally disagree that disenchanting should be available to everyone. First off as an enchanter i make quite a bit of money taking the green items i get disenchanting them and putting the mats on the auction house. if everyone could disenchant then the price of mats would take a nose-dive as everyone who didnt need the mats would put them on the auction house and flood the market. While it would seem like a good thing to give anyone enchanting so that things just dont go to vendor but thats just part of the game. If you dont want things to be vendored find an enchanter and bring him along or level enchanting for yourself. Yea it can be very expensive to do so but thats the sacrifice you must be willing to take so you dont vendor stuff anymore. If they were to give disenchanting to everyone whats next prospecting or milling, or maybe even lockpicking(sorry rogues)?
However if blizzard were to put it in game then i think the best way to do it would be Gilzen’s idea that you would be able to get soulbound items disenchanted by putting it in the “Item will not be traded” box and the enchanter would be able to do the disenchant for you. This would easily be the simplest fix to do and would allow the enchanter to get some extra cash on the side for DE’ing.
they could have an NPC near by that you’d give the item to and it could DE it for you. A twist could be that if you ARE an enchanter, you can get double loot or a better chance on getting the rare DE items!
If there is no disenchanter in the group, give a gamble option in which you have a Very small chance at a rare item, an average chance of an average item but with also a good chance of not getting anything. Doing this gives groups who cant find someone to disenchant somewhat of an option but doesnt cancel them out completely as there is a risk you may lose an item completely. Everyone’s happy! (probably not…)
i dont think disenchants should be available to all players. it cost me alot of time and money to level my enchanting. i dont think blizzards new roll system is intended to automate disenchants or provide disenchants to groups without an enchanter. i believe blizzard is just adding a new roll priority and nothing more. on civilized servers, the unspoken loot rule is as follows:
need if you need, pass if you don’t. enchanters always greed unless they need. you pass out the shards at the end.
i believe the new system will work as follows.
need = number one priority
disenchant = second priority
greed = third priority
I would make it a part of the new archeology profession that everyone can do. Makes sense for an archeology person to disect and study items and possibly break them down.
i would have an enchanter standing at the enterance of every instance, when you press the “Dissenchant” button, it it sends it back to her/him, and you can pick up the DE’s after the raid is over
Perhaps an addition to the loot system that could place items in a stasis, not in any immediately usable form, but in a collection that can be instantly converted into shards and dust the next time the player meets and Enchanter. Enchanters could make a profit from sharding collections without the hassle of multiple trades, and players get the benefits of sharding in dungeons in the long term without immediate hassles associated with the case-by-case loot systems PUGs create.
It would even carry over to personal use outside dungeons, creating a system that wouldn’t require the guild enchanters being burdened with thousands of green items in their mailbox to smash every time they log in! Including the guild upgrades coming in 4.0, a guild stash of items to be Disenchanted could be placed in the guild interface, so any guild enchanter could shard the guild’s wares whenever they were in town.
I think using another profession is a good idea. Alchemy comes to mind where the alchemist would create a DE potion with the help of an enchanter. The potion would be usable by anyone. Some created item enchanters would only be able to make with varying mat requirements similar to the inscription vellums, though nothing to extraordinary as not to negate the cost/benefit.
Randy’s idea of cooking is good. Perhaps using some cloth created item from tailoring and enchanted to ‘cook’ with the item in a pot would produce the DE.
Regardless of the method, I think enchanters need to be included somehow. Enchanters have something special in the game that would be taken away by including a DE button on a loot screen.
I kinda like the idea of just having it disenchant strait from the looting interface, if everyone passes then it automatically disenchants the item and rolls to see who gets the item. Set the looting to a special way to do this so that groups who want to do it the old way still can. Not sure if Blizzard would actually do that much automated, but I think they’ll at least have a way for enchanters to hit a certain button when looting to show they are rolling on it to disenchant for the group…
They need the following loot buttons -
NEED
OFFSPEC NEED
GREED
Allowing everybody to shard is a way devalues those with the enchanting profession. I remember many podcasts ago there was a discussion about why everyone assumes that Enchanters have to share what they shard off of boss drops.
Whenever there is a mining or herb node in an Instance, I have never seen people roll, then make the miner mine and then distribute the ore to the highest roller. No, the miner mines and keeps the ore for himself.
That’s my two cents
The reason enchanters usually the shards they get off of a boss drop is because that is usually something you can not do solo. Enchanters dont have to share mats from the BoEs that they loot and break.
Also, it comes down to a value perspective; yeah, skinners dont offer up the Arctic Furs they get when they are skinning in an instance, but that’s usually because 90% of the time, they dont get any; if it were a situation where if you skin/mine/herb a boss and it always gave you something like an arctic fur or titanium bars or frost lotuses 100% of the time, then I’d think that those professions might be expected to kick in, but it’s hardly the case.
Besides, in my recent experience, after a party leader declares that they can DE, people are starting to ignore that and just greed stuff anyway, regardless of whether or not they can use or DE it. It makes me wonder if these other characters can DE but dont tell the party this and just greed regardless to break later without needing to share with the party.
Also, if you Need for your main spec and Greed for your off spec(s), then no change is currently needed if you’re not going to change the DEing. There should be a distinction between needing something for your main set and all else, but beyond that, Player A greeding to sell a BoE versus Player B greeding for one of their offsets seems perfectly weighted; yeah, Player A may never actually equip the item, but if Player B doesn’t need it for your main spec, then what makes that off spec more important than Player A wanting to support their current gear set by buying new gems/enchants with the money from selling something that they dont necessarily need for their main spec?
As an enchanter I need to say that if were going to give everyone the disenchant skill why shouldn’t we give everyone mining, herbalism, skining ect. I see the point that people have wasted loot however, I waste herbs/ore ect. everytime I pass a node that I can’t use. Disenchanting is for disenchanters if we are going to put a disenchant button on the roll command then it should be for group containing enchanters at the very least. It may be a thankless job in groups but through levels 1-80 disenchanting items is a great way to make gold.
Although I favor the idea of using the trade window that silgnon & Giltzen mentioned. I don’t think it’s an easy thing to integrate into the program a filter that might identify something like bound item as “Not Valid” for disenchants.
Without a filter in trade window, the potential to sabotage from competing class is also pretty big as I don’t want to risk asking for an enchant and suddenly have disenchanted dust and “sucker” painted on my face.
I say Blizzard should create an NPC like they did with Usuri Brightcoin (money changer in the Dalaran Sewers), who will simply disenchant stuff for anyone. They can add a surcharge based on ilevel or something that’s a variation of same mechanic that prevents Enchanters from DE’ing anything higher level then their skill will allow..to help keep goblin-greed in line with Ururi’s.
That’s my $.02
The key is figuring a way to allow groups without an Enchanter the flexibility of disenchanting unwanted items while not taking away from the usefulness and profitability of Enchanting. Why not add another oil to the repertoire of Enchanters. A disenchanting oil can scale by power similar to the various wizard oils. Like the current oils, there could be a limited number of charges per batch.
I would have the ability to disenchant stuff and the Enchanters of the world would have a consumable product that they could sell. Heck, Blizz might even be able to boost the profitability of other professions depending on the ingredients needed to create the oils.
Wohoo, bring on the Grunty!!! … come to think of it, I need to go take a grunty.
I know its too late for the pet but i had to comment on this. As an enchanter I would feel as if I was being given the shaft by blizzard if they just gave out a skill I worked hard on and passed it out to everyone. It would also hurt me because being that I am a big pugger, I very often announce myself as an enchanter in hope that gives me an edge over the tons of other dps trying to pug too (and it often does).
If people can disenchant with their cooking, i want to be able to skin and mine with my Enchanting skill. How? I’m freaking magic. I’m sure i can figure it out.
Here is how I would make disenchants available to all: Everyone take up enchanting.
Don’t have enchanting? Tough. Take all the money you made from Mining/Skinning and spend it on enchanting mats.
I don’t like the idea of anyone getting enchanting mats from unwanted BoP items… here’s why…
To date I’ve leveled three enchanters to max skill. Very expensive process. The old way of selling enchants in trade was inefficient and never made much gold in the process. I have resorted to doing all enchants for friends, family, and guildies for free. I have found the only way to reliably make some gold with this profession is to sell enchanting mats. However, I’d guess that I am nowhere even close to covering the cost of leveling even one toon to 450.
Now if everyone can get enchanting mats from unwanted gear the result will be a huge supply of these mats which will cause the price to drop on the AH. Players with two other professions can now make gold with Herb, mining, and disenchanting? Supply will go crazy and demand will drop. Very few will buy mats since everyone will have their own stash that they create.
For the idea that items will be DE’d during the roll process…. I’m sure Blizzard will be very excited to deal with all the noobs that open tickets like “I hit the wrong button, now my Uber Sword of Geekness is a shard! Can you undo this???”
Rolling on shards at end of a raid…. yet we’ve been doing this since 1.0. Is it fair to the enchanter? No. Is it overly fair to non-enchanters? Yes. I don’t ask to roll on skins, herbs, or mined materials…. why not?! This is a game, and as such things like this should be “fair”…. from now on, I won’t give my shards away.
Oh btw, if you need any infinite dust I have tons of it on the AH…. and thanks again for helping me buy 3 mammoths. Booooyah!!!
Phrenzy